Accelerating Sales Onboarding: Expert Insights for Effective Enablement w/Jenn Haskell

Brian Dietmeyer [00:00:03]:
Welcome back to another edition of Close Mode, the Enterprise sales show. I am Brian Dietmeier. Meyer, and I'm really lucky at the end of the year to have, Jen Haskell here today. She is the director of sales enablement and training at, Nasuni. Jen, welcome to the show.

Jenn Haskell [00:00:18]:
Thanks for having me.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:00:19]:
Today's discussion is onboarding. Looking at a lot of studies that are out there year after year, onboarding, better onboarding keeps coming up as a top need for sales teams and sales leaders. Why why is this thing like, this perennial problem? What what are the top Two to 3 reasons you think onboarding doesn't appear to be working?

Jenn Haskell [00:00:38]:
Well, I mean, that you know, to narrow it down to 2 or 3 reasons, like, I can definitely do that, But there's a whole lot of reasons why, you know, onboarding falls short a lot. I think the the first one is I look at onboarding, and it Happens in 3 phases at every company whether they acknowledge it and they're prepared for it or not. There's the onboarding that's more of the mo. Corporate onboarding for all employees that HR does.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:01:04]:
Okay.

Jenn Haskell [00:01:05]:
If you're lucky and you're in a sales organization and you have a dedicated sales or function. Then there's the onboarding that comes from that side of enablement.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:01:15]:
Okay.

Jenn Haskell [00:01:15]:
And then, of course, there should be the enablement that managers are doing. Right? And I think a lot of companies fall short on making sure that those 3 areas of the company are creating an onboarding For their new hires, that is seamless. Most of the time, it ends up seeming like they're siloed, and then they end up Conflicting with each other for time and attention

Brian Dietmeyer [00:01:39]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:01:39]:
From that new hire.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:01:40]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:01:41]:
I and I guess probably the specifically for sales, There's this thought process that the faster and quicker you can get all that information out there, the faster and quicker that that new hire is gonna become productive. That to me is the number one miss when it comes to sales onboarding because they're already drinking from the fire Mode, And now you're making it worse. As human beings right? As human beings, we can only retain so much information in a period of time.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:02:11]:
Yeah. And and it's it's funny because that you just took the words out of my brain that it's like, wait. The fire hose method doesn't work. But in in prepping for this interview, you know, I know a little bit about onboarding, and I, you know, I was doing some snooping around, and that's a really common theme. And it's just like, boom. Let's hammer people. So I'm I'm also a big fan of of kind of root cause analysis. And in prepping for this, I started thinking about if we're onboarding the wrong people, The greatest onboard program in the world isn't going to help.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:02:43]:
Do do you think that's An issue with onboarding, like, as a root cause that maybe we're not getting the right people, or is the problem more more onboarding itself?

Jenn Haskell [00:02:51]:
It kinda depends. Right? You and I were talking about That startup mentality a few minutes ago before we kicked off the podcast. The number one mistake I see with onboarding in startups is that we're hiring people based on the salary that we have to work with, and sometimes they're more junior level.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:03:11]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:03:11]:
But they're expected to do the same thing and perform in the same way that a veteran in sales Right. Would be able to perform. So I definitely think, like, if if I looked at the lead quality side, I would look at that from 2 points of view. With the new hires, Yeah. You wanna attract the the lead talent, that quality talent.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:03:32]:
Yep.

Jenn Haskell [00:03:33]:
Right? Because with them comes and this is like an antiquated But with them comes this Rolodex of relationships that they already have and conversations That they can already start to have with people that they've sold to in the past. Yep. On top of that, You know, lead quality, if you can get the right folks in, one, they will become productive quicker. 2, word-of-mouth, they're gonna bring you more talent

Brian Dietmeyer [00:04:02]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:04:02]:
To the organization.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:04:04]:
Yeah. It's, 22 things. 1, I haven't seen much about When we talk about onboarding to look at those leading indicators, those those root cause, you know, are we hiring the right people? Are we giving them the right leads? And and I feel like this should be a more holistic if we're gonna do an analysis about why is it taking so long to get people up and running, but I wanna go back to your your Rolodex comment. We may have to I I love that you used it. And, yeah, I bet there are people who don't know what that is, especially when they hire. 1 one of my partners Before our company selling, we had a few months ago went into, I don't know, Best Buy or something and asked one of the sales reps where their flip charts were. Had no idea what a flip chart was. Right? And, like, oh, I think it was an Office Depot.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:04:48]:
So I was like, wow. Has has it really changed? Did COVID change that much that people People don't even know what a flip charted. So anyway

Jenn Haskell [00:04:55]:
I mean, think about think about in the next what is it? Oh my gosh. It's almost 2024. And I think, like, 6 years ago, I did this keynote at an a sales enablement society event, and I talked about the future of leadership. And I remember making a statement That said by 2025, like, half the Fortune 500 companies were gonna be run by millennials. Yes. We're there. Right? And when we think of millennials, and I love millennials. Mills.

Jenn Haskell [00:05:22]:
Millennials have been one of my favorite groups to onboard. They're like sponges

Brian Dietmeyer [00:05:27]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:05:27]:
But they've also had technology since day 1. So when you say things like roller decks to them. That's their connections on LinkedIn sales navigator. Right? When you say flip charts to them, That's one note. Yeah. You know? I've had people, like, deliver training to them before and they're like, oh, so and so wasn't paying attention. They were on their laptop the whole time. And I'm like, did you ask them if they were emailing, or did you actually ask them if they were taking notes? Because I guarantee they were taking notes.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:05:57]:
Right. Yeah. That that's cool. That that makes me think that, again, back to that really thinking holistically, like, are we hiring the right people? Are we giving them the right And is our onboarding in alignment with with this sort of class or group of people? Like, the way they learn, the way they think. I think those are all. And and if anyone's looking at their onboarding, I think those are good sort of root cause analysis to look at. So I I I I just read average time So revenue for a new rep is 381 days, or another another way I heard it expressed is it's 1.5 sales cycles, which is really scary if you've got an 11 month sales cycle, and that's to to get to the production of a 10ured rep. So e either a year or one and a half sales cycles.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:06:41]:
Does that sound right, and does that sound acceptable to you?

Jenn Haskell [00:06:44]:
No. It's it doesn't sound right, and it's not acceptable. Yeah. Do I think it happens? It absolutely happens. There are gonna be some instances where it makes sense. You know? We're talking about a really complex industry in enterprise sale. Okay. I get that.

Jenn Haskell [00:07:01]:
But for reps in general, we break them down I I break them down specifically at Nasuni into 2 categories. My nontenured reps are 9 months and under. My tenured reps are over that 9 month mark. And my goal, Every quarter, I need reps to close at least 2 deals as quickly as possible.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:07:22]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:07:22]:
So I have reps that are closing deals Within their 1st 6 months at the company. My goal is to consistently cut that down. And to go back to what we were talking about before as far as, you know, Better onboarding. I think one thing that companies need to be better about, and this is a huge area of focus for me in 2024, is Individual development plans. Okay. So you have onboarding that everyone goes through, and you kind of talked about this. Then you have very specific onboarding that's built out for your different roles and your different styles of learning. And now you're looking at quantifiable metrics, and you're even looking at your tenured reps, your veterans, if you will, And you're creating better development plans for them because they can always be better at what they do.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:08:11]:
Yeah. So I wonder. That that does lead to the next question. So one One of the reasons you and I decided to talk about onboarding today is because you said, hey. I'm like, you're proud of this. Like, you feel like you do a great job at it. So we've talked a little bit about Kind of root cause analysis and maybe why doesn't some of it work, but let's switch to the Mode fun topic, which is what what does work? What have you done? And I think maybe that's just one thing. It's like we have the Here's for everyone, and then here's the individual plans.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:08:36]:
What else are you doing in onboarding that you think has made a difference?

Jenn Haskell [00:08:40]:
We're doing prelearning. So we have Stuff that goes out to our new hires the moment they accept their offer. Most of it is public facing because we can't get them on certain systems that we have in house, but we're at least setting the tone while we're also welcome welcoming them to the team and Yeah. And showing them what our culture is about. That moves the needle a little bit because they start to have more connection points on day 1. To me, the most critical thing is the 30, 60, d 90 day plan, and it's laying out for them, hey. Your 1st 30 days, this is what you have to do. And if you could Do that week over week.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:09:20]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:09:20]:
That helps. But for me, it's more of a guideline. But I don't just tell them what they have to do. I tell them why they're doing it. So there's always measurements of success in place. If you're an SDR, you're, you know, kind of a junior seller, You know that by day x, you should be able to pick up a a phone and make a phone call to a prospect. If you're one of our Mode tenured sellers that has years of experience coming into our company, then you know by your 4th week, you should be able to join a sales Hall. And at least deliver several of the slides in our intro deck.

Jenn Haskell [00:09:59]:
So I think those measurements of success Tell them why they're prioritizing certain things, at certain times in their journey.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:10:08]:
Yeah. You you mentioned something with the 30 2020 4 bark barking dogs up. We're used to this on nationally syndicated news shows. So And another thing I was that struck me in preparing for this is that, a problem with a lot of onboarding programs is event focused. Like, boom. It's the fire hose up front versus the this ongoing drip, drip, drip in in coaching. How how do you feel about that?

Jenn Haskell [00:10:38]:
Well, I think, you know, again, I try to avoid the drinking from the fire hose. And so when you just said event focus, for Mode, the event focus and Probably what is so important is having them learn things in a way that makes sense

Brian Dietmeyer [00:10:55]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:10:55]:
When they're actually doing something. Yeah. So I never do a Salesforce training. I never do a CRM training During onboarding, I might give them the high level. Here's your team. Here's some very high level 10,000 foot view process. But Mode, I'm telling them when the time comes and you have to do these things in that system, we're gonna work with you. You have a dedicated coach.

Jenn Haskell [00:11:20]:
You're gonna go through the process with them. And I think that is what allows them to retain that information because now it's more personal. It's an opportunity that they're actually working on. We do that with their intro decks. The first couple of calls that they have with customers, They have a dedicated enablement team and coach that's helping them create their decks, helping them create their pre call planners, Working with them to use the the ROI calculator that we have in place to build that business case. So we focus on being much more prescriptive And much more hands on.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:11:59]:
Yeah. It's I was having a discussion with, Alyssa, a friend of mine who runs, global enablement for Checkpoint. And she talked a lot about context based stuff. Just we're talking about learning in general, but that that's what just struck me about What you just said, that that kind of support is that that's in context. It's this call. It's this deck. It's this conversation. Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:12:25]:
Yeah. And, you know, people that join Nasuni, I tend to get pretty positive feedback about our enablement function. They're blown away at the fact that we're not just cranking out content for you. Right? We're not scheduling all hands and delivering sessions Deidmore. And introducing you to subject matter experts. We're in the weeds with you. We're your dedicated coaches, and we're coaching you through that process even into your more tenured months. Right? So we're still doing that same thing With the rest of our sellers.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:13:02]:
Yeah. It it's it's interesting.

Jenn Haskell [00:13:04]:
Sorry. He's actually downstairs. It's my dog. He's downstairs. The garbage man came. Horrible timing.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:13:11]:
There the garbage man come.

Jenn Haskell [00:13:13]:
Well, usually, they come in the morning, so it's a bit ridiculous, but the husband just kidnapped the dog. So

Brian Dietmeyer [00:13:18]:
Thank you, husband.

Jenn Haskell [00:13:20]:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Let me just make sure he's taking him out. Hold on.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:13:25]:
I wasn't getting the idea. Yeah. Dan, I'm I'm with you. Yeah. Well no. And well, I I I I did actually. You may not Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:13:34]:
Brian did call out the fact that we had a dog in the house.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:13:37]:
I think I think people people are used to it. Yeah. It sounds like we're alright.

Jenn Haskell [00:13:43]:
Is officially kicked out, so he should not be a problem. And my husband has his own podcast, so he should know how to help me through this situation. I know. I know. I always tell,

Brian Dietmeyer [00:13:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yes, sir. So, Jen, obviously, to to me, one of the biggest reasons for Mo. Successful onboarding or quick onboarding. It's time to revenue. Right? So, you know, we're we're making these investments. We we need to make that money back.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:14:14]:
I just read a stat That somewhere around 40% of why people leave jobs is because they haven't been onboarded properly and then they can't be successful. That Is that are are you hearing similar? Do you see that? What what's your experience with people leaving because this hasn't been done properly?

Jenn Haskell [00:14:33]:
Yeah. I will I'm surprised it's 40%. I would actually think that maybe it was more than 40%. And I think what happens is You're a seller. What do you want to do in sales? You wanna close deals and you wanna make money. And when you're not able to do that within the first 6 months or so, you start to get a little nervous, and you start to wonder if you made the right choice. So I definitely see that happening. And to me, I always try to tell my sellers, like, my job is to make sure that you're making money as quickly as possible.

Jenn Haskell [00:15:09]:
I think what a lot of companies Focus on more is your job is to make money for the company. Now I want my sellers to know I need them making money. I want them to pay that, you know, 1st semester of tuition for their kid that just went off to college, I want them to take their family on vacation, and I'm heavily invested in that.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:15:27]:
Yeah. That's I'm gonna go back to this. It it really struck me about this sort of in in context, just in time, 1 to 1 to 1 support. Diemont. The the thing that strikes me, and I'm wondering for other people listening who maybe haven't done that, is there a trick to scaling that? Because that to me is the ideal. Well, I I loved your notion of So the 30, 60, 90, let let's take it out over time and give them, you know, at at the right Mode. And then this notion of 1 on 1 end context is cool. Yeah.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:15:54]:
But how how do you do that?

Jenn Haskell [00:15:56]:
Well, one way that we do it is we have technology that allows us to take a look at the conversations that our reps are having with customers. So the first thing I did when I joined Nasuni, and one of the reasons they brought me in, was to choose a call recording software. And, you know, it's not big brother is watching. We don't wanna hit our culture in the sense that they think we're always looking for them to do things that are wrong. Instead, we empower our sellers and we say, hey. Tell us about the calls that you had this week and share with us the moments that you thought went really well, But share with us the moments that you're not quite sure if you nailed it, and what they're doing there is now they're enrolling us as the coach Yeah. Into helping them, and that's been a game changer because I know every single conversation that my new hires are having, And I can follow-up with them and be more prescriptive on what I think they could tweak or change in the upcoming conversations. Then we also work with their managers.

Jenn Haskell [00:16:58]:
If we're kinda seeing like, oh, you know, so and so has a lot of fluffer words, and they kinda take away from the conversation. It's distracting. We don't feel like they really have a grasp of the value messaging. Again, we go back, and we have a prescriptive plan of how we're gonna turn that around.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:17:16]:
Excellent. So, something that you and I are both both have interest in is is EQ. And We we discussed this in our last conversation. And and I'm wondering, you know, e either in in for in general for me, EQ So for people who aren't familiar with it is, you know, the ability to read a room. Right? And that's for for Mode. When I when I see people with with With low EQ, it's like you're just spewing out whatever and you you didn't hear. You don't know how to react to that. Is that is that teachable? Should that be part of onboarding, especially for sales reps?

Jenn Haskell [00:17:53]:
I don't know that it should be part of onboarding. What I do think it should be part of, and I've just been having this conversation with my HR team, I actually do believe in things like predictive index or personality and behavior assessments. I think that does help you find people that have higher levels of EQ. Yeah. That emotional intelligence is something that I can make people aware of it, and I can give them tips and tricks. But at the end of the day, you either have EQ or you don't. What I can do is I can hone it. You know, flip side of that though, I do have to teach managers how to have high levels of v q.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:18:35]:
Yes.

Jenn Haskell [00:18:36]:
They typically have it, but they need to be better at tapping into it, especially in sales. Most of my sales managers have become people managers because they were very effective at selling, Not necessarily effective at managing people because it's their 1st time.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:18:52]:
Yeah.

Jenn Haskell [00:18:53]:
So in that sense, if I'm onboarding a new manager, then yes. EQ is part of the conversation. If it's a seller, EQ is something that I'll sprinkle later on, in their tenure with the company.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:19:06]:
You know, it's I hear so much this this idea that great salespeople are moved into sales leadership roles. And I I was fortunate enough many years ago to to work for Bill Marriott of Marriott Hotels, who's an just an idol of mine. And and Bill Marriott used to say, The very same things that lead to your success will lead to your failure. And and I I think about that. Right? Because as a rep, your job is to be the hero, And then as a manager, your your job now is to is to build heroes. So sorry. That just that came to mind that that such an issue is that that transition, which Could be tied to EQ. So back to the EQ question.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:19:43]:
So Yes. Excuse me. I love the fact that you've worked it in for managers and to a degree salespeople. Where I'm trying to think of resources. Books, Close, is there somewhere to lean on others and our own understanding of EQ? What what would someone who wants to have that be part of their onboarding do? Where would they go?

Jenn Haskell [00:20:04]:
Yeah. There's some I mean, there's some great resources out there. I'll tell you that we actually have brought in, well, several companies I've been at. I've used this individual. Keith Rosen is out of New York, and he does this really wonderful leadership training Okay. For, coaching your sellers into more effective, coaches sales coaches. And he talks a lot about, You know, empowering your direct reports by enrolling them in conversations. So rather than showing up and saying, hey.

Jenn Haskell [00:20:40]:
I've got feedback for you And then just giving them the feedback, you should be using a completely different approach. It should be like, hey. I've observed some things, and I have some suggestions Where I think we could get you over the hump, or I think we could get your ASPs up, or I think we could help you have even more effective conversations. Are you willing to have that conversation in what time works best for you? Those are the emotional intelligence things that will go a long way because now what you've Dean. Done is you've given that seller the option to say, yes. I'm ready to have a conversation or, you know, let me think about that. Maybe we could do it during our next 1 on 1. You've completely broken down that initial wall of defensibility that most people have when you catch them off guard.

Jenn Haskell [00:21:27]:
And then there are some other great resources out there. There's a lot of books. I think about going through my undergrad, and so this book is probably 30 years old. But The the leadership guide, it's still relevant. If you go through that college textbook, there's a lot of good callouts To self awareness, situational management. And then the 1 minute manager, I don't know if you ever read that. But Yeah. Mon.

Jenn Haskell [00:21:53]:
Such an easy read, but so full of nuggets that reminds you, you know, find The moments that people are doing things right more than than you find the moments where somebody is missing the boat.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:22:07]:
Yep. I I love Negotiation awareness, that that's an e easier way to describe EQ. I think I talked yeah. I call it reading the room, but but yeah. It's like

Jenn Haskell [00:22:16]:
It's But it is. Right? Reading the room is really a subcomponent

Brian Dietmeyer [00:22:20]:
of that. Correct.

Jenn Haskell [00:22:22]:
And how how do you be in sales And how do you be successful in sales if you can't read the room? Reading the room is what allows you to make those pivots and to call those Audibles that you sometimes need to call Yep. Which is much more difficult nowadays when we're not necessarily in person in a conference room Every conversation we're having.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:22:43]:
Yeah. And and not likely to ever come back the way it was.

Jenn Haskell [00:22:48]:
Probably not. Right? I mean, the the trend was this was gonna happen anyways. It was gonna happen a little later around 2027, And everything sorta got fast tracked because of the pandemic, but this was always gonna happen. And so now we just Need to hold ourselves accountable for making the best of the situation and being just as effective virtually as we are in person.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:23:14]:
So, I'm thinking back to kinda summarize a few of the things we talked about. I brought up the point about root cause. If your onboarding's not working, let's look. Are we are we getting the right people? Are we giving them the right leads to succeed the the kind of, leading indicators? And then you talked about, ongoing sort of just in time, the 30, 60, 90 rather than the the fire hose upfront. And I love the piece about, like, the individual in context. We're getting ready we're working on an opportunity, and and you're gonna be coached. And you talked about leveraging technology to do that. And the The other one I would add, if if your onboarding is not working, is maybe look at the the how how current is it based on the kind of people that are coming into your organization right now.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:23:58]:
Is it in alignment with millennials, or was it built in a time that no longer exists? And you just made me think about something else. Was it built in a time that was pre COVID? And and are you just building on that legacy practice? Because if it's not relevant for the kind of human and the kind of environment we live in, it that's gonna be a problem as well.

Jenn Haskell [00:24:16]:
I have a great onboarding plan. Of course, I'm I'm biased. It's my plan. I built it. But I don't ever make the assumption that it's Dean. Good in 6 months, a year, 18 months. You have to consistently look at your reps performance across the board, Deidmore. Identify what good looks like and who, if you had a choice, if you could, like, duplicate their behaviors and their patterns throughout the organization, Dean.

Jenn Haskell [00:24:43]:
Who is that? And then how do you pull that tribal knowledge in their best practices and then transfer that? I do that consistently, and that's where I make my tweaks and my onboarding based on what I find in that exercise.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:24:57]:
Excellent. Yeah. We'll be looking forward to watch. I I know one of the studies that I've been focusing on about where onboarding keeps coming up is coming up shortly, and I'm curious to see if it shows up. Yeah. Again, this year, in terms of a top Mode, but I think that this is really needed. We need more conversations about it because, again, It comes up too much, and I really appreciate, your time chatting about this. I I learned a lot prepping and in this call, so thank you.

Jenn Haskell [00:25:25]:
Good. Thank you for that. And I'm sorry about the guest the guest speaker we had, my dog, Lachlan. So he's 9 months old and and he's Crazy.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:25:34]:
Well, he he you can't you can't blame him. He he wants to be he and we we should thank your husband for those who are listening who I took that puppy and got that puppy out of the way for him, so thank you.

Jenn Haskell [00:25:46]:
I suppose that's the that's the downsize of Recording a podcast right before the holidays. Everyone's here. But, but, yeah, you know, onboarding is Always going to be needed. Onboarding is a critical component to getting reps to that level of performance that's expected in a shortened of a time period as possible. And when you can do it right, I wouldn't even say it's a win win. It's a win win win. Yeah. Right? It's a win for the company.

Jenn Haskell [00:26:19]:
It's a win for the team that's onboarding that person. It's a win for the sales negotiation, And, of course, it's a win for that new hire.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:26:26]:
Yeah. That that that part, I love. You know? It it really is about about, You know, fee fees for school, car payments. I mean, that's that's for the yeah. We we owe it to people to help them get there if they put their trust in us by coming and working Morris. I think that's a that's a great underlying reason to do this well because we we clearly we need to get better at it, and we need more of these discussions. So I will

Jenn Haskell [00:26:50]:
And you know sometimes you have to, like, flip the the thought process. It's you know, you you think of that and you're like, oh, well, that's all and good. Well, the other thing that I would say is look at look at the risk of not having a good onboarding. It's not just that you lose someone that you invested a lot of time and money to bring to the team. It's also when they do leave, Deidmore. The time it takes to have to go through the process again is time that you don't have someone in that seat generating revenue for your company. So At the very least, you've gotta find the right talent. You've gotta cultivate that, and you've gotta keep that around.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:27:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. I I agree. It's it's, you know, I've said it a couple times. It's kind of a it's a it's a massive issue, and it's frustrating to me that it keeps coming up. And and we need more best practice sharing around that to make it better so that this is a this is a great start. So thank you again, yeah, for as you said, it is It is the end of the year. It's not.

Brian Dietmeyer [00:27:50]:
Mode